What's with the double standards?

"El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First!" (lightningzone) 01/15/2015 at 20:06 • Filed to: None

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Tesla and Acura get all that flack for motivated, reasonable delays of a model or two. But FCA gets away with it?

We haven't seen anything new from those guy at NAIAS, except for Alfa roadster, we all knew was comimg and some special versions of existing cars.

How come nobody has a problem?

They also killed Lancia. Instead of bringing it to America, they've killed it.

Honda too. They only showed a FCV, we've alredy seen, twice.

Come on automakers. Move your asses!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:11

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Sorry, can't hear your complaining over 707 horsepower.

Manuél Ferrari > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:13

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Seriously

FIAT sucks

Took them way too long to launch the 4C

The mid size Maser is terrible

And they are throwing Ferrari to the wolves

For Sweden > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 01/15/2015 at 20:14

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Thank you based Italia

GhostZ > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:16

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Because we already know and have confirmation that they're going to release a whole shitton of new models next year?

The thing is that they're not behind schedule . They're on schedule, just releasing at a different time.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 01/15/2015 at 20:22

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Oh brother...

ranwhenparked > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:24

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We would complain if FCA showed a concept car at the 2015 NAIS and said they were building it "soon" but didn't come out with the production version until 2023. They haven't done anything like that yet though. Only Honda, Russian automakers, and 1970s BL move that slow.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > GhostZ 01/15/2015 at 20:24

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How can launching a new car in June, in Italy, be better marketing than launching it at one of the biggest car shows, in the world?

MCS2014 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:25

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Fiat may be global for sure, and functional too. But aspirational? Really? Seems like some very wishful thinking by some corporate investor relations guy, trying to get approval from all the 8732 middle managers FCA has in marketing ( and the 3 guys they have in quality assurance). May be aspirational if compared to, let's say at Tatar tuck-tuck. Actually, stricky that, I'd love to own a Tata tuck tuck!

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > ranwhenparked 01/15/2015 at 20:29

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Acura showed the concept 3 years ago. And said it will unveil the production car in 2015. And we're in what year?

ranwhenparked > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:31

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They made the "coming soon" anouncement in 2007 though.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > MCS2014 01/15/2015 at 20:33

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The 500 costs more than small cars from Toyota or Ford, even if it's less practical. And that's where they aim to be in the next 5 years.

PS9 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:33

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The flack HondAcura got for completely and totally botching the NSX launch comes from the resentement fans have experienced while trying to follow the brand and be enthusiastic about it's products. The old NSX (and some other kinda cool stuff like the Integra, the Prelude, the s2k, etc.,) Are things strange and alien to our-era Honda, a company that makes almost exclusively beige products for a much wider non-enthusiast consumer base.

Being a honda-acura fan over the past few decades or so (meaning the intro of the GS-R, NSX and a few others to now) meant watching the brand kill off all your favorite cars with no promise of reprisal while being teased with a new NSX for almost a decade. Then be teased some more with a non-purchasable concept a half decade after that. Couple this with Acura basically being "Honda, but slightly better." and the NSX being the one and only product in the whole bloody lineup aimed at enthusiast - and even then, it's going to be north of six figures, so many fans won't even be able to afford it at all - and you have a combo guaranteed to leave some people with serious levels of salt in their blood.

The 4C comparatively got no flack at all because it's a mid-engine sports car from italy that doesn't cost as much as three houses in your neighborhood. No that is not fair. But neither is life.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > ranwhenparked 01/15/2015 at 20:40

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That was the V10 FR model, that was canceled during the carpocalypse. They took the decision to build the MR model in 2011.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > PS9 01/15/2015 at 20:47

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So, you expected the NSX to cost $20.000? And the 4C is not cheap either, sure the NSX is more expensive but you get more car.

PS9 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:54

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So, you expected the NSX to cost $20.000?

No. I do expect something sporty and fun from a brand that could make an NSX for considerably less than six figures, and that does not exist in their line up.

If you're a Ford fan who can't afford a GT, it's not so bad. The ST brothers and the Mustang are there for you.

If you're a Chevy fan who can't afford a Z06, it's not so bad. The base model is only $50k and the Camaro is still there for you.

If you're a Nissan fan who can't afford a Nismo GT-R, it's not so bad. The 370z is dated, but still excellent and there for you.

If you're a Honda-Acura fan who can't afford an NSX...well go fuck yourself then. That's the problem which is causing all of the salt.

spanfucker retire bitch > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:57

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That top image reminds me of just how badly I think FCA will have model/brand overlap in the future. If Alfa Romeo is supposed to now compete against BMW, then what is Maserati exactly? And how are they going to keep the Chrysler/Dodge/Fiat brands separated, especially in the U.S.

How is FIAT an "aspirational" brand when every vehicle they've launched so far in the U.S. is at the bottom of the FCA totem pole? They'd be below Chrysler, but Fiat is supposed to be the "mass market" brand in pretty much the rest of the world. Why did they even bother launching Fiat back in the U.S. anyways with this plan?

It's all kinds of cluster fuck.

Nibbles > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 20:58

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Because instead of rushing to meet a deadline they didn't set, they're moving to meet the deadlines they set themselves

Because a rushed product is a bad product

Because you touch yourself at night

Because FCA doesn't have the loyalty benefit other manufacturers have; a misstep can - and would - cause even more pains for the company struggling to regain relevance

GhostZ > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 21:05

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Nibble's last sentence was best.

FCA is playing the slow and steady game. A publicized flop release could do a lot of damage to them if they don't first have confirmation of new models. Why ruin the nice vibe they're getting off of the Hellcat with something risky when they can wait it out until they're better prepared?

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 21:08

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haha.

You want to see confused and double standards? Just look at VW and Audi.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > spanfucker retire bitch 01/15/2015 at 21:30

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Alfa goes after Audi, Maserati goes after Porsche. Dodge would become some sort of sporty Buick and Chrysler a classy-er Chevy. Fiat will be like Mini, with around five models or so.

I think there's room for Lancia in the plan, as Alfa's less sporty but more elegant and luxurious, brother.

bootstrap > PS9 01/15/2015 at 21:37

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Um... the Accord Coupe? It practically looks like a Mustang.

wiffleballtony > bootstrap 01/15/2015 at 21:42

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Not sure if serious

bootstrap > wiffleballtony 01/15/2015 at 21:46

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Lol, I am just kidding. There is the CRZ though... :P

wiffleballtony > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 21:48

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FCA gets a pass from me because they've done a lot right by enthusiast standards. Hellcats, Abarths, Alfa coming to the US the Viper etc. Acura has done jack.

wiffleballtony > bootstrap 01/15/2015 at 21:54

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And the Civic Si!

The New Cherokee Is Okay I Guess > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/15/2015 at 22:20

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Can't speak for the Euros but criticizing Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep for not enough new stuff would be kinda silly, considering the major appeal of those brands is basically how outdated they are. Big RWD V8 is out, small truck-based SUVs are out, and for the Pentastar these are their most iconic items. Most Chrysler products are sort of value-oriented (especially Patriot), fancy new shit costs money. Basically, we know Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler are more old-fashionned value than innovation, and we love them for it. So no updates is fine. No updates means they aren't killing the last RWD American land yacht, the last dedicated offroader, what some call the last true muscle car. New vehicles are almost the opposite of what Chrysler fans want. Cherokee.

When you look at Acura and Tesla, it's the opposite. Acura's most exciting product (the only one that's not a luxury Honda, /joke only kinda) is this NSX. Tesla gets shit because people want to actually see a Tesla they can afford. These are brands who have promised products more exciting than anything in their lineup, of course people are upset when they're delayed. And that aside, we're talking about luxury brands. Acura and Tesla don't sell cars because they've got value, or old-fashioned drivetrains, they sell because they're fancy and new. You can't sit on fancy and new.

And Maserati, Alfa and Ferrari, so far as I know, are special enough to not need new cars. Rolls Royce doesn't need new shit. Porsche doesn't need new shit. These cars are rare and niche enough that they don't need updates as often. The names are enough that they don't have to be trendy like Acura (maybe not as big as Rolls Royce or Porsche, but still). And unlike Tesla, they haven't promised anything, so no one really has anything to bitch about.

Patrick Nichols > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/16/2015 at 00:11

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Imagine if lancia came back as a niche performance competitor?! I know the image has dodge as the performance brand but I see them more competing in the fwd crowd on the budget end and muscle cars in the mid level and in the upper end with the viper.

Imagine a lancia having a sti/evo competitor, a small cheap rwd coupe (similar to the nissan idx concept), and a mid engined awd rally car w/ 500hp priced at about $60k. This wouldn't overlap with anything they currently make and it would be glorious

MCS2014 > El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! 01/16/2015 at 04:30

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I understand what you mean, but I think that is the exception that proves the point ( and makes FCA dellusional) . Sure, the had sucess with some versions of the cinquetento, but as a mass brand they still are about the pand's, uno, punto, strada, etc.

To Be fair, yes they could be aspirational for their target segment (eg, people who previously could not afford a brand new car), but hard to think of them as purely aspirational and not a logical buy, specially when comparing to the whole industry.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > MCS2014 01/16/2015 at 14:17

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Look at the graphic, all other brands are described mostly in one word, except for Fiat. That's because Fiat models will either be basic and functional, either more expensive than others, emotional and aspirational.

However, North America will only get the emotional cars, apparently.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > Patrick Nichols 01/16/2015 at 14:49

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There is no money for such things. Lancia would be lucky to get Alfa platforms and put new bodies on those.